Monday, May 05, 2008

Muslim madness - again...

Sam Harris: Losing Our Spines to Save Our Necks - Politics on The Huffington Post
Geert Wilders, conservative Dutch politician and provocateur, has become the latest projectile in the world's most important culture war: the zero-sum conflict between civil society and traditional Islam. Wilders, who lives under perpetual armed guard due to death threats, recently released a 15 minute film entitled Fitna ("strife" in Arabic) over the internet. The film has been deemed offensive because it juxtaposes images of Muslim violence with passages from the Qur'an. Given that the perpetrators of such violence regularly cite these same passages as justification for their actions, merely depicting this connection in a film would seem uncontroversial.

Of course, there were immediate calls for a boycott of Dutch products throughout the Muslim world.

There have also been isolated protests and attacks on embassies, and ubiquitous demands for Wilders' murder. In Afghanistan, women in burqas could be seen burning the Dutch flag; the Taliban carried out at least two revenge attacks on Dutch troops, resulting in five Dutch casualties; and security concerns have caused the Netherlands to close its embassy in Kabul.

Wilders, like Westergaard and the other Danish cartoonists, has been widely vilified for "seeking to inflame" the Muslim community. Even if this had been his intention, this criticism represents an almost supernatural coincidence of moral blindness and political imprudence. The point is not (and will never be) that some free person spoke, or wrote, or illustrated in such a manner as to inflame the Muslim community. The point is that only the Muslim community is combustible in this way. The controversy over Fitna, like all such controversies, renders one fact about our world especially salient: Muslims appear to be far more concerned about perceived slights to their religion than about the atrocities committed daily in its name. Our accommodation of this psychopathic skewing of priorities has, more and more, taken the form of craven and blinkered acquiescence.

And there's the problem: Muslim's can kill and maim in the name of their religion. There is no serious outrage coming from Muslim community. If their is, it is definitely drowned out by calls for jihad and blood. But when the west points out that Muslims indeed commit atrocities in the name of their religion, its as if none of it really happened...

The world has to grow a pair: call a spade a spade... Religiously motivated violence is at the core of the turmoil in the middle east... on both sides: Arab and Jew. This backwards religion from the dark ages is responsible for the brutal oppression of women, for prescription of clerical rule based on irrelevant and idiotic "law" and not least of all the glorification of martyrdom. The more people that speak out against this irrationality the better.
There is an uncanny irony here that many have noticed. The position of the Muslim community in the face of all provocations seems to be: Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn't, we will kill you. Of course, the truth is often more nuanced, but this is about as nuanced as it ever gets: Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn't, we peaceful Muslims cannot be held responsible for what our less peaceful brothers and sisters do. When they burn your embassies or kidnap and slaughter your journalists, know that we will hold you primarily responsible and will spend the bulk of our energies criticizing you for "racism" and "Islamophobia."


Intellectual Insurgent said...

How do you know what Muslims condemn and don't condemn? You don't speak Arabic, Farsi, Chinese, Urdu or any of the non-English languages spoken by Muslims.

So you let Sam Harris be your priest and interpret Islam and Muslims for you.

So rational.

RR said...

Have you read Al Jazeera lately?

Intellectual Insurgent said...

You mean BBC Jr.?

Like I said, you don't know WTF you're talking about. You don't know what 1.2 BILLION Muslims condemn or don't condemn.

Taking what a news network chooses to pick and choose in a planet full of news as representative of anything is the height of irrationality Mr. Reason.

RR said...

I don't claim to know the minds of a billion Muslims... Just what's reported on internet news and on some Islamic news web sites.

But I do know this: when someone draws a cartoon of a 1400 year old Muslim, 10s (if not 100s) of thousands riot and kill people... around the globe. Religious leaders put out death warrants... demand appologies and people act like someone was murdered. All the while calling for and justifying murder in the name of the faith.

A school teacher in Sudan was arrested and in fear for her life because her students named a teddy bear Muhammad...

Look, you can assert that I don't know what most Muslims think, but when their most VOCAL leaders call for killing a person for writing a book (Rushdie) or force a woman to go into protective custody for speaking out for womens rights (Ayann Hirsi Ali) there is something seriously wrong.

You can make our screwed up government the boogie man in your mind, but that doesn't change the fact that if ANY of these religious nut-cases had their way it would look like hell-on-earth (via a vi - Iran). Being a woman, I would think it would be easy for you to see that an oppressive religion with claims to governance is simple a horrendous idea.

A recent poll showed that 36% of British Muslims (ages 16-24) believe that a person should be killed for leaving the faith. 68% of British Muslims feel that their neighbors who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted, and 78% think that the Danish cartoonists should have been brought to justice. For what?? And these are British Muslims.

Any belief system that doesn't allow ANY criticism is anathema to society at large.

Intellectual Insurgent said...

Ok, come on, polls are B.S.

I am sure I could find 38% of Americans who think people should be killed for disagreeing with democracy.

I am sure that I could conduct a poll where 68% of Americans feel that their neighbors who insult America should be arrested and prosecuted.

And 78% of Americans who think that anyone who does something to the flag should be brought to justice.

Do you remember the news networks and their accusations of treason against anyone who opposed the war?

And those are Americans.

And, by the way, there is no such thing as an Islamic religious leader. There is no clergy in Islam and just because someone gets a mic, doesn't make them a leader. Just because a news organizations puts a camera in front of some yahoo doesn't make him a leader.

RR said...

You're right (except about the BS part)...

Most Americans do think that people who do something to the flag should be "brought to justice" ... and I'm sure a poll would reveal that. I'm sure the "insult America" question would also reveal a large percentage (prob not as high tho)...

However, you got the implication wrong: it doesn't mean the poll is BS... it means AMERICANS ARE STUPID and don't know what freedom/liberty actually mean! Similarly, (British) Islamists have been taught that slights against the Islam should be punished. This is a core teaching (from my reading of the english koran).

There are no Islamic religious leaders? Then who are all the guys (I saw) in Sadr city that are willing to die following Muqtada al-Sadr edicts?

Who are all the Iranian Republican Guard folks following if not the Ayatollah and the Supreme council? The entire nation of Iran is RUN by ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS LEADERS!

Come-on II... you can't possibly believe what you are saying...

Intellectual Insurgent said...

Polls, just like studies, can be crafted to reach any conclusion the pollster wants. They are B.S.

Has it even occurred to you that Sadr has an alleged following because there are foreigners occupying their country and they are uniting to resist the occupation? Islam is totally irrelevant to that.

Funny you should mention Iran, because that is a main source of the split between Sunni and Shia. The Shia wanted a pope-style religion and the Sunni, following the Quran, said there is no such thing.

Intellectual Insurgent said...

However, you got the implication wrong: it doesn't mean the poll is BS... it means AMERICANS ARE STUPID and don't know what freedom/liberty actually mean!

Ok, so secular Americans apparently are no better than British Muslims then. So what does any of this have to do with religion?

Similarly, (British) Islamists have been taught that slights against the Islam should be punished. This is a core teaching (from my reading of the english koran).

Kinda like Zionists have been taught that any slight against Zionism/Israel should be punished. Using American military force if necessary.

Secular Europe makes it a crime to question the holocaust. So much for secularism, tolerance and free speech.